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"Early life" concern

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It says under "early life" that Koizumi's father and grandfather were both gay.

One can only assume that this is vandalism... if anyone knows what it's actually supposed to say, please edit.


Thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.252.101.231 (talk • contribs) 22 April 2007.

And beside his tattoo, is there any other evidence that his grandfather was "YAKUZA"? I am going to de-capitalize this at any rate. Kortoso (talk) 21:30, 28 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Let's get this article to FA status

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What needs to be done to get this article to FA status? I think it's fairly close. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 05:01, 22 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]


Although this wikipedia page states that he did not appoint a successor, a BBC news page states that "Mr Abe was appointed by his immediate predecessor, Junichiro Koizumi" http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/6990519.stm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.44.210.235 (talk) 05:58, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fair use rationale for Image:21apec5.jpg

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Image:21apec5.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 04:20, 12 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

regarding picture

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The olive baboon.jpg is the most ACCURATE depiction of koizumi. This is wikipedia, an online encyclopedia. All the facts contained within this article must be ACCURATE.

so do not revert the picture. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.215.168.209 (talk) 04:25, 2 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Article title

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This article should be at Jun'ichirō Koizumi, which is the correct romanization for the subject's name. The majority of articles about Japanese people (politicians and otherwise) use macrons and whatnot when needed; there's no reason for this one to be an exception. -Amake (talk) 13:29, 28 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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Here is a link to an anime that features Junichiro Koizumi as a character. In it he "negotiates" with what seems to be N. Korea. Other PMs of Japan are characters as well. http://www.zomganime.com/reform-without-wasted-draws-the-legend-of-koizumi-1/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.118.35.121 (talk) 07:01, 2 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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Macron but no apostrophe?

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What sources spell his given name with the macron but not the apostrophe? What a bizarre mix of spelling standards. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 07:39, 14 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 25 October 2016

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved to Junichiro Koizumi – Clear consensus against the proposed transliteration + overwhelming dominance of spelling "o" without macron "ō" in English sources for this particular name. The WP:USEENGLISH guideline also supports the alternate move. Potential consequences on other Japanese language titles, as feared by the OP, should be debated on each relevant page; there is no domino effect. Nobody suggests to rename "Ōyamatsumi" to "Oyamatsumi", but nobody suggests to rename "Tokyo" to “Tōkyō“ either. — JFG talk 16:03, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Junichirō Koizumi → Jun'ichirō Koizumi – Per MOS:JAPAN romanization – Curly "the jerk" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 13:13, 25 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This is a contested technical request (permalink). — Andy W. (talk) 17:42, 25 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
And if that is not enough, how about:
It would be great if non-Japanese speakers could learn how to pronounce Japanese names properly. I am not convinced that unfamiliar symbols appearing in the middle of a very familiar name will help with that task. (On a similar note, it would be great if Japanese people could learn how to pronounce my name properly, but I know it will never happen. Some things we just need to learn to live with.) AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 00:43, 27 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"I also oppose the macron"—that would require a separate move discussion, as the macronned version is already established. Will you demand Shinzō Abe, Tarō Asō, Renhō, etc, etc, etc, all be moved as well? This is not a rhetorical question.
The consensus for the macron is well established, but having the macron but not the apostrophe is unprecedented. The MoS gives little regard to the styling in newspaper sources, which tend to be "minimalist", not only dropping diacritics, but also not bothering to italicize titles. Wikipedia follows more closely the norms of the book industry. In books and academic papers, it's common to use full diacritics: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12], etc, etc, etc. Curly "the jerk" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 01:08, 27 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The short answer to your question is yes. You have to consider the reader of the article. Which are they going to be more familiar with, the spelling used by their daily newspaper or a book? You are also discounting the fact it is the spelling used by the Japanese government and I presume Koizumi himself. AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 01:16, 27 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Then you're in the wrong forum—you want Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style to vent about article titles with diacritics. This is an article where the diacritic version is already established, and the move is to bring it in line with MOS:JAPAN conventions, which it currently violates by including one mark and not the other. Curly "the jerk" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 07:31, 27 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
MOS:JAPAN you say? Would that be the page with the section titled determining common usage, which says in part "...scholarly reliable sources ... and mainstream media ... reliable sources are equally acceptable, and neither should be considered more valid than the other."? At the risk of repeating myself, "Junichiro" is certainly the common usage in everyday media that the majority of readers will be familiar with. AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 08:07, 27 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Are you paying attention to the conversation? The diacriticked version of the article title is already established. If you want to remove them, you'll have to start a new move request. As long as we have them, we have to use the MOS:JAPAN-specified style.
(The "Milestones" page of that same official page you link to doesn't use diacritics of any kind, even for the romanizations in the "Publications" section. Thus, the lack of diacritics must be presumed to result from technical limitations, an in-house government style, or sheer laziness, and personal preference on the part of Koizumi cannot be presumed.)
(And as has already been demonstrated, journals and books already commonly use the diacriticked version, so WP:COMMONNAME doesn't apply—this ain't Yoko Ono. When there's mixed usage, MOS standards take precedence. There are plenty of other romanizations in use as well, such as "Junichiroh"[13][14] and "Junichirou"[15][16][17][18]. Romanization in RSes is far too mixed for WP:COMMONNAME to override MOS:JAPAN—COMMONNAME apllies only situations like Yoko Ono's where use of the one non-standard spelling is simply overwhelming.) Curly "the jerk" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 08:54, 27 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
My apologies. To be clear, I oppose this move, but would support a move to "Junichiro Koizumi." (However, I agree that "Jun'ichirō Koizumi" is an improvement on the current page name.) MOS:JAPAN#Personal names states that the form personally or professionally used by the person, if available in the English/Latin alphabet (this can include the spelling appearing on their official website) or the form publicly used on behalf of the person in the English-speaking world should be used before the diatricked version. I think that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Cabinet websites posted by Athomeinkobe above should be enough to fulfill these criteria, supporting the spelling Junichiro Koizumi. Mineffle (talk) 04:02, 28 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Mineffle—as I pointed out above, the govenrment websites use no diacritics of any kind anywhere, and therefore cannot be taken as a preference of the individuals. Relying on these pages would mean banning diacritics from all Japan pages, including place names and historical figures. That would require an overahaul of MOS:JAPAN, which cannot be decided on this talk page. Curly "the jerk" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 05:14, 28 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. I support "Jun'ichirō Koizumi" over the current "Junichirō Koizumi" as it is a better romanisation, but I support "Junichiro Koizumi" over both, as that seems to be overwhelmingly the form used in English-language sources. Some great sources have been given above, and to those I would like to add that a Google Books search for "Junichiro Koizumi" gets 8840 hits, whereas a search for "Jun'ichirō Koizumi" gets only 281. I sympathise with the desire to keep the titles of politician biographies consistent, but as it is written, MOS:JAPAN#Determining common usage puts common usage above consistency. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 05:59, 28 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    I get 374 hits for "Jun'ichirō Koizumi" and a further 466 for "Koizumi Jun'ichirō". The diacriticked versions are also very common in journals—"Junichiro Koizumi" is hardly "overwhelming", and not the COMMONNAME as WP:COMMONNAME defines it. Using such a rationale for Koizumi's article will logically result in a ban on macrons in article titles, as newssources avoid them. That woulld be hugely disruptive—how many thousands (?) of articles will have to be moved? Places, people, titles, ideas, culture (all the way down to Genkō yōshi, which gets 4,940 hits without the macrons) ... to what benefit? Anyone who does a search for "Koizumi Junichiro" (which gets 20,000 Google hits) will already arrive at the correct article through redirects.
    This is all pointlessly disruptive with no benefit to readers or editors. Curly "the jerk" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 09:27, 28 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep in mind that the proposal to rely on pop sources for the formatting contradicts WP:JATITLE, which explicates spelling should follow that used "in academic journals and texts". Curly "the jerk" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 09:45, 28 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • If you are going to quote WP:JATITLE, then I think you should quote it in full. Follow the usage of academic texts or a widely used reference such as a published encyclopedia in matters of spelling, macron usage, and name order. That is just an introductory line to the section on "Personal names", which continues with the subsection modern names. It provides five criteria of decreasing importance, with "Use the form found in an encyclopedia entry from a generally accepted English encyclopedia" as option #2. The published encyclopedia Britannica has no macrons. They list Jun'ichirō as an alternative, which means the editors have considered it but do not prefer it. Your suggestion of defaulting to macrons is actually the fifth and final option of modern names, when no other options are applicable. AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 00:51, 31 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • Britannica is extremely random in its use of macrons—it prefers macrons for Hideki Tōjō, for example, which Wikipedia doesn't use. Regardless, the macronned form is the default use, to be used except when superseded by an official alternative, etc. As there is no established spelling of Koizumi's given name, and usage is extremely mixed, it defaults to the default. Otherwise, you're proposing an extreme disruption of potentially thousands of WP:JAPAN articles. Please tell us what your plans are for those thousands of articles, AtHomeIn神戸. Curly "the jerk" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 06:58, 31 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
        • What you call "random", I would call Britannica's editors being careful in what they recoginse as the most appropriate form to use in each case, rather than trying to apply one rule to thousands of articles. Remember, we are discussing one article here, not thousands. If the default was some sort of golden rule then why even start this discussion? In the case of this article, which is the sole topic of this thread, the weight of usage clearly lies in the non-macron form. That has been made clear by myself and others above.
For the sake of completeness, let's look at the full list of criteria in modern names:
  1. Use the form personally or professionally used by the person, if available
    I cannot find any social media profile except for a Twitter account which says J. Koizumi. It has a link to the Japanese version of the Kantei website but not the English one, meaning he must endorse the Kantei's writing to a certain extent (but I would not rely upon that).
  2. Use the form found in an encyclopedia entry from a generally accepted English encyclopedia
    As mentioned above, Britannica favours no macrons.
  3. Use the form publicly used on behalf of the person in the English-speaking world
    That would cover the Kantei and MoFA examples provided above, both of which favour no macrons.
  4. Use the form publicly used on behalf of the person in any other popular Latin-alphabet-using language
    I haven't looked for any sources that fit this category. If Koizumi doesn't have an English bio on Twitter, I doubt he has a German one.
  5. If none of the above is available, use the macronned form.
    Because #2 and #3 are both available, defaulting to macrons is not required.
It is clear in this case, from both the policy described in WP:JATITLE and common usage that the non-macron form of Junichiro is appropriate in this case. Throwing up distractions like genkō yōshi (which is a type of paper, not a person) or the prospect of affecting "thousands of articles" is just that, a distraction. AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 07:26, 31 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"I would call Britannica's editors being careful in what they recoginse as the most appropriate form to use in each case"—sounds to me like more "assumptions" of yours, along the line with the bogus assumption that the J-gov page somehow could be "assumed" to represent Koizumi's preferences. I notice you haven't retracted (or even acknowledged) that. The fact is Wikipedia does not use the forms Britannica does, and deciding now to do so will result in a large number of pointless page moves.
"we are discussing one article here, not thousand"—no, we are talking about you insisting that the form used in newspapers etc is the form we must use on Wikipedia, which would result in thousands of article moves. Address this, and stop dodging. Curly "the jerk" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 23:44, 31 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
We also need to note your bias against diacritics in general and your tendency to leave them out of articles you create: Kosuke Kato, Toru Takahashi (baseball), Kenichi Marumo, Ryuya Matsumoto, Yuko Sato, Akio Sato (politician, born 1927). Trying to create some sort of precedent with Koizumi? No, removing the diacritics from Koizumi will obviously have wide ramifications, and will require a larger RfC—it cannot be decided on this talk page. Stop trying to downplay this. Curly "the jerk" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 23:56, 31 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Move to Junichiro Koizumi per Curly Turkey and others above. The diacritics don't help with pronunciation, and they are very often not found in English language sources, hence we should omit them.  — Amakuru (talk) 13:41, 1 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • Again, a rationale that would lead to the barring of diacritics from titles, which cannot be decided on this talk page. "... don't help with pronunciation" is just bizarre—what are they, random decoration? Curly "the jerk" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 21:20, 1 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      Well sort of. Given that Japanese doesn't actually use the Latin alphabet at all, these are not diacritics in the native sense. They are part of a particular system used to help English speakers who are familiar with them to do the exact pronunciation of the word. In this case, however, that's irrelevant, as this is a well known figure with a well known English name, which almost universally omits any such diacritics.[23][24]  — Amakuru (talk) 22:56, 2 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      Amakuru: "Almost universally" has already been shown to be false. If you mean in newspapers, then you really are proposing removing diacritics in general, as newspapers tend to omit diacritics from French and German names as well, as well as many other kinds of formatting. Wikipedia does not follow newspaper formatting conventions. As I've said numerous times now: this cannot be decided on this page. Curly "the jerk" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 23:03, 2 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      Yes, so I see. You have repeated that over and over, but nobody else agrees with you. We are discussing this one article, about a former PM of Japan, a well known figure akin to a Novak Djokovic. It does not impinge upon WP:JATITLE in particular, given that Britannica also uses that form (as mentioned above), and given also that WP:COMMONNAME, (established Wikipedia policy), is also met only by the diacritic-less form. If you want to take the result of this one RM and infer that some change in JATITLE is required, then you go on ahead and propose that change. But I don't believe that's necessary, and it does not affect the fact that this article needs moving to the diacritic-less form.  — Amakuru (talk) 23:24, 2 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      "nobody else agrees with you"—if nobody else agreed with me that the world wasn't flat, it wouldn't get any flatter (see WP:CONSENSUS, which explicitly rejects hand-counting). The fact remains that usage is mixed (thus failing WP:COMMONNAME), and that the primary argument put forth is that newspapers don't use diacritics (case in point—will you argue the cédille be dropped from François Hollande?). This is an argument Wikipedia rejects—the consequence otherwise will be barring diacritics and other marks from Wikipedia titles, which cannot be decided here. Curly "the jerk" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 00:05, 3 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose; Move to Junichiro Koizumi. According to this Google Ngram, the common rendering is without diacriticals. This makes sense since they are not useful to me or, I expect, most people. I'm glad to lose the macron -- that "o" at the end of his name can't be anything other than long, otherwise the spelling would be different -- but the apostrophe, what is that supposed to mean? Do I make a little stutter-pause there or what? Stuff that 1) goes against common usage and 2) adds nothing but confusion for most readers, we don't need. Herostratus (talk) 01:22, 3 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
(a) yet another rationale that would ban diacritics and other marks entirely, which cannot be decided on this page.
(b) Google NGRAM does not recognize diacritics—the first hint should have been when you noticed NGRAM returns zero hits for "Jun'ichirō" (even without the "Koizumi"), when we know we can get an awful lot of GBooks hits for "Jun'ichirō Koizumi" OR "Koizumi Jun'ichirō" -"Junichiro". NGRAM results cannot be accepted for determining diacritic use.
(c) "that "o" at the end of his name can't be anything other than long"—you'll have to explain this, Herostratus. It most certainly does not have to be long, and vowel length is quite important in Japanese. We have, for example, the Mori clan and the Mōri clan, Oguchi and Ōguchi. This is not trivial. Curly "the jerk" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 05:57, 3 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, sure. For any English word ending in "-chiro", the last syllable will be pronunced "roh" (or "roe" if you prefer) -- the long "o" sound. That is a rule of English orthography (there may be exceptions for some particular words but that's the normal rule. It it were to be pronounced differently, it would be spelt "-chirah" or "-chiroo" or whatever. Thus if I come across even a made-up word-- "brebo" say -- I know it should end in "boh" (the "bre" is a thornier matter, as is the "chi" in Junichiro). Herostratus (talk) 18:36, 5 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Foreign words are not automatically assumed to be pronounced according to the rules of English orthography. How do you pronounce karate or kamikaze, after all? Or je ne sais quoi? If you don't know how to pronounce it, you can (a) ignore it, or (b) find out. This is the Internet Age, after all. Curly "the jerk" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 21:19, 5 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose; Move to Junichiro Koizumi instead. Yes, perhaps we should be less inclined to include diacritics in article titles. This might even be a good test case of that. A title is chosen to best help the (English) reader identify the article they want. Diacritics may sometimes help in that, but in this case they clearly do not. Details of pronunciation generally belong in the article lede, not in the title. Andrewa (talk) 10:17, 3 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Google Book search results are as follows per WP:COMMOMNAME.
  • "Junichiro Koizumi" -"Junichirō Koizumi" -"Jun'ichirō Koizumi" -"Jun'ichiro Koizumi" 9,970
  • "Junichirō Koizumi" -"Junichiro Koizumi" -"Jun'ichirō Koizumi" -"Jun'ichiro Koizumi" 162
  • "Jun'ichirō Koizumi" -"Junichiro Koizumi" -"Junichirō Koizumi" -"Jun'ichiro Koizumi" 110
  • "Jun'ichiro Koizumi" -"Junichiro Koizumi" -"Junichirō Koizumi" -"Jun'ichirō Koizumi" 252
―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 10:32, 3 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Phoenix7777—your links are broken—they point to Google, not GBooks. Curly "the jerk" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 10:37, 3 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think so. They are Google book results. Please try again.―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 10:46, 3 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Phoenix7777: click the links. Curly "the jerk" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 11:14, 3 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
They all lead to Google books when I follow them (although I did get one strange result but now can't reproduce it), and my results are even more favourable to Junichiro Koizumi than those quoted above. Clear your cache and try again. If that doesn't work, try rebooting both your computer and any local modem and/or router you have (at once I suggest, trying to save time will just waste it more likely). Andrewa (talk) 11:20, 3 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
All I'm getting is Google. Oh, well. Curly "the jerk" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 12:32, 3 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You may have some weird glitch with your Google profile, if you're logged on to Google, or some weird Google cookie if not. Probably a bug as I can't imagine why they'd do it deliberately. You could try clearing cookies and/or logging off from Google, but Google tends to be pretty possessive of its users (try DuckDuckGo if that bothers you, but Wikipedia tends to stick with Google as, ironically, DDG gives extra weight to Wikipedia pages, which is the last thing we want for measuring usage). So I can't guarantee any way of cutting the knot. So next best thing, follow the link then click on the "books" link, which is probably on a line near the top that reads something like "All Images News Videos Books More Search Tools" (again you're at the mercy of cookies and profiles) and should have had "Books" highlighted but I guess you're getting "All". The "Books" link should take you to the page the rest of us get... You've probably done that already, does it work? Do you get similar results for Books (which was the real question all along)? Andrewa (talk) 19:43, 3 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Well, the other funny thing is it's cutting out the -"unwanted text" parts. The GBooks link I made above works properly. Curly "the jerk" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 21:27, 3 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. I think claiming that the "move to Junichiro" argument is based largely on the spelling in newspaper/pop sources is an oversimplification--as covered above, the non-diacritic version is more prevalent in encyclopedias, on the Japanese government websites, in United Nations publications, and in the majority of academic texts, not solely "pop" sources. Although CurlyTurkey has previously stated 500 sources to be "quite a lot", the diacriticked version represents such a small fraction of published academic works (from the above figures it would be about 7% at the most generous) that I'm struggling to see how WP:Common Name doesn't apply. Obviously English-language sources will tend toward non-diacritic spelling due to convenience, so we should perhaps give more weight to diacritics when they do appear, but in this case none of the sources directly linked to Koizumi use the diacritic spelling either.
(Note: Possibly an odd source, but the Elvis compilation CD released by Koizumi also uses the non-diacritic spelling, which could add more weight to personal/professional use of "Junichiro".) Mineffle (talk) 03:15, 4 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The pop sources argument has been given considerable weight in the discussion, and several editors here have called for the removal of diacritics in general based on such arguments. We can't pretend the diacriticked version is in the least bit rare or unusual, nor can we pretend the arguments are limited to this article. Curly "the jerk" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 03:24, 4 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Arbitrary break

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Just running the numbers to this point, so far I get:

  • Move to Jun'ichirō Koizumi: 2
  • Move to Junichiro Koizumi: 7
  • Keep as is (Junichirō Koizumi): 2

(The one debatable vote is User:Deb who just said "Oppose per Athomeinkobe"; since Athomeinkobe supports a move to Junichiro Koizumi, I assume Deb probably does also.)

I oppose a move to Jun'ichirō Koizumi, which is what I thought was being debated. Maybe I got lost somewhere along the way. Deb (talk) 18:39, 9 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, correct, alright, I will change to you just "keep as is"; it's just that you were "per Athomeinkobe" and Athomeinkobe is of the mind "Not only don't move it to Jun'ichirō Koizumi, but actually move it Junichiro Koizumi without even the macron". Herostratus (talk) 20:13, 9 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Strength of argument is debatable I guess. But just going by the numbers the result looks pretty clear to me, unless there are more votes. Herostratus (talk) 15:35, 9 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
  • Comment If I had been allowed participate in the discussion in 2016, I would have definitely supported the move as proposed. 7-4 might be a "clear consensus" based simply on the headcount, but 7-5 is not, and interpreting the divide between those who support-the-use-of-the-macron-but-not-the-apostrophe and those who support-the-use-of-both-the-macron-and-the-apostrophe as meaning that the tiny majority who support-removing-both-the-macron-and-the-apostrophe represent a popular compromise position is bizarre. The claim the closer made that "there is no domino effect" is also clearly wrong.[25][26][27] Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 09:25, 16 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Well, its been eight years, have we seen a domino effect or not? That'd be your answer. I think the point "Nobody suggests to rename "Ōyamatsumi" to "Oyamatsumi", but nobody suggests to rename "Tokyo" to “Tōkyō“ either" is good. There's a big difference between really well-know entities and lesser known ones. That is why our article is Rome not "Roma", because Rome written about in English enough to have a common English name. But some small town in Tuscany, we use the native Italian name because there is no common English name. In fact I believe that there's a rule about that somewhere, maybe. Well this guy is written about a lot so he does have a common English name. Same principle. We are not Procrustus. We don't have to use one rubric for all cases.
A lot of the diacritic stuff is, IMO, bourgeois formalism and education signalling. Some people want us to use the ß in German words, and its wack-a-mole to keep stopping them, thus we have Straßburg, Austria (most articles use the double S). Most or at least many readers are going to pronounce that as "Strabburg, Austria" or else :"Stra... something... burg" in their heads, how is that an improvement over "Strassburg"? And in this case ß and SS are pronounced the same or practically so, and also most English sources do it. If editors want to proclaim "Hey I took German in college" or "I am German, and a language chauvenist" let them do it on their user page and leave the readers out of it. Same deal heree, except the apostrophe is a lot less common than ß (I had to look it up, and i still don't know how to do it, pause-tsu or something). Herostratus (talk) 02:21, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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I have just modified 3 external links on Junichiro Koizumi. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

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move to Junichirō Koizumi

[edit]

almost all Japanese politicians (kono taro, sato eisaku, aso taro, and we changed abe shinzo's) use the macron (ō.) to be consistent, we should move the article over the redirect. (also i am aware of the above discussion, but that was discussed more than 5 years ago.) CringeButSerious (talk) 03:32, 4 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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