Talk:Steamship

Creation

This page has been recreated using some content from the Steamboat article. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 20:47, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Appears that, if we're going to maintain the division between steamships and steamboats, that both articles need severe editing. We appear to need a "senior" article named "steam propelled vessels." This latter article can be renamed, of course. Right now the two articles are entangled. Neither article makes it clear that steamships picked up from where steamboats left off, without dropping a stitch.

Further, that diesel turbine (or whatever) picked up from there. Student7 (talk) 21:04, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

Meaning of SS

There are two major descriptive titles for steamships, abbreviated as "PS" and "SS". These stand for, respectively, "Paddle Steamer" and "Screw Steamer". As paddle steamers have become less common, people have assumed that "SS" stands for "steamship". This is one of the muddles that needs sorting out on this article and its sister Steamboat. (Wow, that sounds grumpy - working too late today.) ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 21:35, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Made this change now - difficult to pick a reference, as this usage is clear in most of the specialist books on the subject.ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 14:40, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

This explanation doesn't make any sense. The article reports "The SS Archimedes, built in Britain in 1839 by Francis Pettit Smith, was the world's first steamship to be driven by a screw propeller." If that's true, how could we have the SS Savannah crossing the Atlantic in 1819? The SS referred to something that hadn't even ben invented yet? Why was SS used for SS Great Western -- a paddle steamer? Why doesn't the article mention a single ship that uses TSS? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:30A:C0F7:35E0:87F:6A89:5ED9:5011 (talk) 16:21, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

That's exactly the point - some users employ "SS" for paddle steamers. The contemporary usage is much more strict on this - refer to a good sample of old newspapers to see this. However, the distinction only seems to apply after the invention of the screw propeller - before that I suppose that every steam ship was a paddle steamer. So the Savannah, predating screw steamers, was described as either a "Steam Packet" or a "Steam Ship".ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 21:59, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

I'm sorry, this is still extremely confusing. First, the article uses inconsistent use of tense:

Intro (present tense):

Steamships usually use the prefix designations of "PS" for paddle steamer or "SS" for screw steamer (using a propeller or screw). As paddle steamers became less common, "SS" is assumed by many to stand for "steam ship".

Name Prefix (past tense):

Steam-powered ships were named with a prefix designating their propeller configuration i.e. single, twin, triple-screw."

The article needs to iron out the chronology. It sounds like SS originally meant "steamship" -- which is why SS Archimedes can use SS before the invention of the screw propeller. The article should say that. Right now it says SS became steamship only after paddles fell out of use.

As paddle steamers became less common, "SS" is assumed by many to stand for "steam ship".

This is ambiguous. Does this mean "some people erroneously assume SS stands for steam ship"? Does this mean that "historians assume SS has come to mean 'steamship'."

Finally, you say that "The contemporary usage is much more strict on this." Most of this article deals with the 19th century. If this strict usage is contemporary, why not move that information to 1970-Present Day. It just confuses things when it's in the intro and the historical section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:30A:C0F7:35E0:658E:C49D:E22B:24C2 (talk) 04:04, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

The problems are (a) the actual usage is slightly confusing (by being inconsistent) and (b) I am employing my own interpretation of the subject in offering an explanation - my study of old newspapers might be deemed {{Original research}}. Ideally there is a recognised author out there who has tackled this subject - so providing a source that can be cited. Any ideas anyone?ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 20:15, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

Why does "Steam ships" redirect to Steamboat instead of here?

It would seem logical to make "steam ships" redirect here, seeing as how they are the exact same words, but in plural. Steam ships don't become steam boats when there is more than one of them.

Also, it says that it is "incorrect to call modern vessels by the SS designation", but that would depend on what the vague term "modern" means. Steam turbine ships were used until relatively recently, and some are still in service. In fact, nuclear-powered vessels are driven by steam turbines, IIRC. The only difference between the drive of a US nuclear supercarrier and the HMS Lusitania is that the steam is heated by a nuclear reactor instead of burning coal and/or fuel oil. So what is the accurate term for a nuclear steam turbine vessel (I know carriers use military designations, but there are nuclear icebreakers, an have even been nuclear cargo ships). Would it be "ST", like "GT" for "gas turbine"? They are still screw propelled and driven by steam, so they technically ought to be still be "SS"..45Colt 10:34, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Somebody fixed this already. They were once one article, as I remember. Student7 (talk) 19:51, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

You need a section on coping with saltwater

The ocean-going steamship had no source of water for her boilers except salt water. There needs to be a section explaining how the potential effect of salt on her boilers was coped with. Simple maybe, but until this was done, ocean-going steamships were not practical. Ttocserp 20:15, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Using salt water in a propulsion boiler would be catastrophic. However, steamships re-circulate the steam/water in a continuous cycle thereby conserving most of the water. In the most simplistic cycle, water is heated in a boiler until evaporated into steam, the steam then works on an engine or turbine to produce power, then the steam is exhausted to a condenser, cooled back into water and finally pumped back to the boiler, starting the process over again. Of course modern steam plants are more complex with additional safety and efficiency enhancing features throughout the cycle. But, the process of re-circulating saves most of the water. Nevertheless, their are loses which are made up by using stored fresh water. Fresh water can be taken onboard when the ship is in port, but, most ships can also generate fresh water by boiling salt water in an evaporator; which also provides fresh water for the crew, especially, on longer voyages. Even when a steamship is sailing on freshwater, the water is still generally unsuitable for use in a boiler because of dissolved minerals (hard water) and other containments. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.59.103.220 (talk) 08:43, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

The very early steamships used salt-water in the boilers if that was all that was available. Just as the early steam boats on American rivers had engines without condensers, thereby creating the daily chore of cleaning mud from the boilers, so did early instances of long-distance sea voyages necessitate regular cooling and draining of the boiler so that salt could be shoveled out of it.ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 13:21, 14 April 2016 (UTC)