Talk:Copycat suicide

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On 9 May 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to Suicide cluster. The result of the discussion was not moved.

Inclusion of WHO Guidelines

The guidelines from the WHO are really POV, so I've removed them. Wikipedia should not give people advice on how to prevent suicide. Guan aco 03:58, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Why do you say that? Wikipedia gives guidelines on how to treat people who are suicidal. It gives guidelines on how to manage all sorts of issues. These are guidelines which, should the journalist chose to use them, will lead to fewer copycat suicides. What is POV about that? --CloudSurfer 04:06, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)

There are varying opinions on these issues, such as the view that the news media should report the whole truth, the view that suicide is a human right, and the anti-psychiatry movement. It is not Wikipedia's job to prevent suicides. We are not the WHO; we report objectively. Guan aco 04:43, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I have taken the essence of the issue and put it in the article. I believe it is NPOV. See what you think. If it needs further balance then please add that rather than taking away what is there. --CloudSurfer 05:03, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I am happy to remove the stuff below from the talk page or it will clutter up the page. Should it be archived? --CloudSurfer 05:04, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Below is what I would like to include. It could be changed to make it NPOV if there is concern about the language, however, this is in general an attitude held by the media and the public once they know the facts about suicide contagion.

History

The nature of copycat suicides suggests that it is a phenomenon that must have been with us since the development of civilization. One of the earliest known associations between the media and suicide arose from Goethe’s novel Die Leiden des jungen Werther (The Sorrows of Young Werther), published in 1774. In that work the hero shoots himself after an ill-fated love, and shortly after its publication there were many reports of young men using the same method to commit suicide. This resulted in a ban of the book in several places. Hence the term "Werther effect", used in the technical literature to designate copycat suicides.

Guidelines for suicide reporting

The following guidelines are from the World Health Organization.¹

How to report on suicide in general

Specific issues that need to be addressed when reporting on suicide include the following:

Statistics should be interpreted carefully and correctly;
Authentic and reliable sources should be used;
Impromptu comments should be handled carefully in spite of time pressures;
Generalizations based on small figures require particular attention, and expressions such as "suicide epidemic" or "the place with the highest suicide rate in the world" should be avoided;
Reporting suicidal behaviour as an understandable response to social or cultural changes or degradation should be resisted.

How to report on a specific suicide

The following points should be borne in mind:

Sensational coverage of suicides should be assiduously avoided, particularly when a celebrity is involved. The coverage should be minimized to the extent possible. Any mental health problem the celebrity may have had should also be acknowledged. Every effort should be made to avoid overstatement. Photographs of the deceased, of the method used and of the scene of the suicide are to be avoided. Front page headlines are never the ideal location for suicide reports.
Detailed descriptions of the method used and how the method was procured should be avoided. Research has shown that media coverage of suicide has a greater impact on the method of suicide adopted than the frequency of suicides. Certain locations - bridges, cliffs, tall buildings, railways, etc. - are traditionally associated with suicide and added publicity increases the risk that more people will use them.
Suicide should not be reported as unexplainable or in a simplistic way. Suicide is never the result of a single factor or event. It is usually caused by a complex interaction of many factors such as mental and physical illness, substance abuse, family disturbances, interpersonal conflicts and life stressors. Acknowledging that a variety of factors contributes to suicide would be helpful. Suicide should not be depicted as a method of coping with personal problems such as bankruptcy, failure to pass an examination, or sexual abuse.
Reports should take account of the impact of suicide on families and other survivors in terms of both stigma and psychological suffering.
Glorifying suicide victims as martyrs and objects of public adulation may suggest to susceptible persons that their society honours suicidal behaviour. Instead, the emphasis should be on mourning the person’s death.
Describing the physical consequences of non-fatal suicide attempts (brain damage, paralysis, etc.) can act as a deterrent.

Providing information on help available

Media can play a proactive role in helping to prevent suicide by publishing the following information along with news on suicide:

Listing available mental health services and helplines with their up-to-date telephone numbers and addresses;
Publicizing the warning signs of suicidal behaviour;
Conveying the message that depression is often associated with suicidal behaviour and that depression is a treatable condition;
Offering a message of sympathy to the survivors in their hour of grief and providing telephone numbers of support groups for survivors, if available. This increases the likelihood of intervention by mental health professionals, friends and family in suicidal crises.

References

¹ Preventing suicide: A report for media professionals - World Health Organization, 2000

Rename page?

Do you guys think either 'Suicide and the media' or 'Suicide contagion' is a better title? It's a broader subject and more could probably be added in that form. Thoughts? Gflores ^Talk 17:10, 8 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. Naming this article "copycat suicide" and then mentioning things like the regulations on reporting on suicides in various countries implies that those regulations exist because of or are influenced by a fear of copycat suicides. --80.212.65.83 (talk) 00:57, 25 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. I think "Suicide Contagion" is a better title. 174.112.216.70 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 16:43, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Brazil

In Brazil, the suicides are mentioned in press (but not how they happen)

Norway

There used to be a ban on mentioning suicides in the press, but not anymore. There have been a fair amount of suicides reported in recent times. But 70 years ago Aftenposten(a big Norwegian newspaper) got stoned after writing that a ice skating champion had killed himself. But it's not like that anymore.

You're probably right about that. There's been quite a few high profile suicides mentioned in the press lately. My issue with this article is the title. It's misguiding to write about things like the previous Norwegian ban on reporting suicides if you cannot find a reason to connect it to copycat suicides, otherwise it implies that the reason the ban existed in Norway was fear of copycat suicides (which is highly improbable).

--80.212.65.83 (talk) 00:55, 25 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The self-regulating guidelines of the Norwegian press, Vær Varsom-plakaten, says: "4.9. Vær varsom ved omtale av selvmord og selvmordsforsøk. Unngå omtale som ikke er nødvendig for å oppfylle allmenne informasjonsbehov. Unngå beskrivelse av metode eller andre forhold som kan bidra til å utløse flere selvmordshandlinger." So, it does not say what the article says, but it explicitly mentions the concern of copycat suicide.84.202.159.225 (talk) 10:45, 4 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

References fixing

I fixed the references so they now use proper citation templates.

What was numbered 5 is not used in the article itself, and the URL itself leads to 404 page so I removed that. Here's the references so someone can re-add it if working URL can be found:

Mindframe national media initiative Australian Government - Department of health and ageing

The second problem is improper citation. Old number 7 cited "Abnormal Psychology: Clinical Perspectives on Psychological Disorders" but gave ISBN for "Abnormal Psychology with MindMap II CD-ROM and PowerWeb". Since only the second book had coauthors I changed the title and left the ISBN intact. If it is in fact the other book the right citation source, then someone should change the ISBN, remove coauthor and change date of publication to January 2007. Shinhan 15:21, 9 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

About recent studies

The article should contain a recent study in Journal of Clinical Psychiatry about the direct influence to people of suicide tendency from improperly handled suicide news reports. Researches before only proves the indirect influence, but this proves both direct and indirect effect. --RekishiEJ (talk) 07:54, 6 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Rework History Section?

Is it really proper to lift an entire paragraph from the WHO report and use it as the "History" section? The whole thing is literally copy-pasted. Kilamanjaroface (talk) 16:02, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

So-called "suicide contagion" is not a universally-accepted concept, but this entry fails to communicate that fact. See Dr. Thomas E. Joiner, Jr's monograph @ http://www.jstor.org/stable/20182569 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.173.137.35 (talk) 16:47, 21 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Factors in Suicide Reporting - Mohamed Bouazizi??

I'm a bit confused what the story about the Tunisian street vendor who's suicide triggered the Tunisian Revolution (and perhaps the entire Arab Spring) is doing in this article on Copycat Suicide, and especially in the section on Factors in Suicide Reporting. Yes, his suicide may have triggered copycat suicides, but the paragraph about him hardly mentions that. It certainly doesn't belong in this section. A new section on Copycat Suicides and Political Protest would work better, it could incorporate some of the related cases (Buddhist monks in Vietnam and, I believe, modern-day China, anti-Communist protesters, etc). Then again, that would probably be redundant with the article on self-immolation. Unless someone wants to make the case otherwise, I am inclined to simply delete the paragraph. Macfrugal (talk) 10:31, 22 April 2012 (CTZ)

Having heard no argument to the contrary, I made the deletion I proposed. Macfrugal (talk) 11:08, 6 May 2012 (CTZ)

Tibet

There have been a lot of self-immolations in Tibet in protest of Chinese "occupation", which may be of relevance to this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.32.31.166 (talk) 03:42, 14 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Marilyn Monroe

"Marilyn Monroe, whose death was followed by an increase of 200 more suicides than average for that August month.[2]" Can someone explain to me what this means, or remove it? "200 more suicides" where? In the US? I would think there are closer to 200 suicides per DAY in the US, and I can't see how 200 extra over a whole month would be statistically significant.106.188.10.222 (talk) 10:52, 1 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Requested move 9 March 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus to move as proposed; proposals to draft a separate article under the title suicide contagion (currently a redirect to Copycat suicide) can be pursued by anyone. (non-admin closure) Ben · Salvidrim! ✉ 12:12, 5 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Copycat suicide → Suicide contagion – Suicide contagion is somewhat broader, since a suicide can be regarded as a copycat one only if the why and how of it is similar or identical to another suicide, however if a suicide is triggered by another, then the term suicide contagion can be applied, in spite of the fact that the why or how of the former may be dissimilar to the latter. RekishiEJ (talk) 15:59, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - Current title seems to be WP:COMMONNAME for the main topic of the article, where the proposed title seems to be a slightly different but related topic. I don't see how the article would benefit. -- Netoholic @ 20:35, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- The proposed new name has more Google results (but Werther effects has more ones, yet this term is a misnomer because Rüdiger Safranski dismisses the Werther Effect 'as only a persistent rumor'), and the article currently does mention suicide contagion.--RekishiEJ (talk) 15:46, 10 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:33, 11 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- @Necrothesp:Just google "copycat suicide" & "suicide contagion" and you'll know that I'm right.--RekishiEJ (talk) 14:22, 13 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. As these are slightly different topics, I would propose just making a separate article on Suicide contagion and limiting the respective articles to their topics. BD2412 T 15:09, 19 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: searching Google Scholar for "suicide contagion"+"copycat" and "suicide contagion"+"Werther effect" yields some sources that use the terms synonymously, e.g. [1][2], and others that define suicide contagion more broadly, e.g. [3]. I suspect the reason the article exists under this name is that copycat suicide is the more catchy term. It might be good to draft a separate Suicide contagion article so we can better see how the topics fit together. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 18:57, 2 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Not comprehensive enough

This article currently lacks info about the role of social media in suicide contagion. Hope that suicidologists can exploit published studies (e.g. [4]) so that it can be added to the article.--RekishiEJ (talk) 11:19, 21 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 9 May 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) CLYDE ^{TALK TO ME}/_{STUFF DONE} (please mention me on reply) 16:59, 16 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Copycat suicide → Suicide cluster – "Suicide cluster" is both more WP:COMMON and more inclusive than the current title, and I believe is also more inclusive of the topic of Suicide contagion as well. This would also be more aligned with recent epidemiological literature such as disease cluster, cancer cluster etc. Pharos (talk) 16:33, 9 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose This narrows the scope of the article, making it no longer potentially about a single incident. More justification is needed for this change. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 22:34, 9 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose "Copycat suicide" is common and unambiguous to most readers. No evidence provided that "suicide cluster" is common name, or that it even applies to this article. It seems like an artificial academic term that would be unrecognizable to most readers. Walrasiad (talk) 23:46, 9 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.