Talk:Shiny Happy People

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Confusing/clumsy analysis

The paragraph that begins "The song is supposedly an ironic reference..." is so confusing that I'm not sure what it means. Maybe it could be cleaned up? Alexbook (talk) 16:35, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Given REM are not overly-keen on simple or direct lyrics, then this song only works as an ironic comment on the phony nature of advert-land or 'nice' middle-class people. For can anyone see REM making just another shiny happy pop song? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.20.225.45 (talk) 14:28, 31 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

doth R.E.M. protest too much?

"a thorn in the flesh of the band, all of whom seem to hate it violently." I'd like to see a source for this assertion. R.E.M. isn't as deadly serious as U2 (for example). The song is chirpy and they did play it on Saturday Night Live; it ain't no bovine excrement like Afternoon Delight. One could argue that Radio Song, also from Out of Time and Pop Song 89 and Stand from Green are equally dumb, so what's prob? – Fantailfan 12:08, 5 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Think it was Buck that said they liked Stand for its silliness, but Shiny Happy People was too far. --Dandelions 14:20, 8 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think Mr. Buck is subject to changes of opinions about his/their work, and expresses all of them freely. Perhaps we could get a source. --Fantailfan 14:22, 8 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Also, I think they don't have it on In Time (as they don't have Radio Song) because the songs had Kate Pierson and KRS-One on them respectively, and they wanted only 100% pure R.E.M. on it. I don't know that, just my opinion (which I removed from the OOT article). --Fantailfan 14:24, 8 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Why I removed "Wussiest" and Tianamen Square Refs

On 'Wussism': It may be properly referenced, but it is silly (non-notable). It is trivial in its most ephemeral sense and does not belong on the page.
On Tiananmen Square: no source was ever cited. Fantailfan 00:45, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've got to disagree. It shows a differing opinion of the song. 67.71.76.2 23:51, 27 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I just removed the Tiananmen Square reference again as five years later it still doesn't have any source. - GrahamStw (talk) 17:33, 11 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

about Prozac

A programme on UK telly last night said the song is said by the artists/fans to be about Prozac. It didn't mention Tianamen Square at all. But I can't seem to find a source for that.Merkinsmum 14:45, 30 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I just saw that programme, interesting. Gavin (talk) 22:28, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Tony Sidaway's recent edits here

I've done a Wikipedia job on this article.

These are the bits I removed totally:

Although a top ten hit, it was excluded from the band's 2003 'Best Of' album In Time; this was reportedly a deliberate decision by Michael Stipe, who once mentioned his dislike of the song in an episode of Space Ghost Coast to Coast.
Shiny Happy People is supposedly an ironic reference to a piece of roughly translated Chinese propaganda regarding the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989, two years before the song was released.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://music.aol.com/feature/111-wussiest-songs-number-1 |title=The 111 Wussiest Songs of All Time (No. 1) – AOL Music |publisher=Music.aol.com |date= |accessdate=8 March 2010}}</ref>{{not in citation given|date=August 2010}}''

If you see an unsourced sentence on Wikipedia using weasel words like "supposedly", "allegedly", "reportedly", and whatnot, remove it. This is an encyclopedia, not a gossip tank where we collect together our personal opinions and things we read somewhere on the internet.

This is a bit I moved from the lede to its own section:

The song appeared in Michael Moore's anti-war/Bush film Fahrenheit 9/11 during footage of George H. W. Bush visiting the Saud family. Moore had previously directed the video to "All the Way to Reno (You're Gonna Be a Star)" for R.E.M. The song also appeared in the movie Tropa de Elite, released in August 2007, and in the movie Marley & Me, released in December 2008. The song was also originally going to be the opening theme song for the hit sitcom Friends, but it was later decided they would use "I'll Be There for You".^{[citation needed]}

I should have removed it but sometimes I'm as soft as shite. Source it properly or delete it. Every single bit must be sourced. --TS 23:40, 7 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Chinese propaganda reference

The song supposedly refers to a Chinese propganda poster. Has anyone ever seen a picture of this poster? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.225.212.147 (talk) 14:41, 22 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have found a poster that could be the inspiration. The translation is rather different, but I can see how it could be, sort of, almost, be mistranslated as "Shiny Happy People Holding Hands"

http://library.hkbu.edu.hk/electronic/arts/chinese-propaganda-posters/all/086.html

各族人民大团结万岁, if you want to translate it for yourself.

I have had Chinese natives translate it as "People of all ethnic groups will be united". But none of the characters are similar to "shiny", I can see "united in solidarity" being translated as holding hands. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.9.240.146 (talk) 05:03, 26 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note that the background of the music video has that sorts of Seasame Street ethnic diversity, similar to the message of the poster. This poster if from the 80's so the timeline matches, of course its based on Cultural Revolutions slogans, so well before the 1989 massacre. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.9.240.146 (talk) 05:12, 26 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

None of this supports the assertions, which are not backed up by any direct evidence (that I have seen), that the song was inspired by such a poster (or anything related to China). It is very surprising that these references remain the article, and attempts to remove them are reverted. How can the burden be on folks to "prove the negative" when pointing out that there is no support for the claims? I would defer to this 2021 article in Vulture, which says: "there's not a verified quote from Stipe or any other R.E.M. member that supports this theory." (https://www.vulture.com/2021/03/interview-kate-pierson-shiny-happy-people-rem.html) 76.202.64.12 (talk) 16:24, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Song Meaning: Benzedrine references

I just added a section to the article (in this revision) discussing the meaning of the song, but this was promptly reverted by Koavf as per WP:NOR.

The REM fans that I know, interpret the overly euphoric tone and the lyrics "Put it in your hands/Take it take it...Gold and silver shine" as a clear reference to the recreational drug abuse of the amphetamine Benzedrine, which comes in packaging with a "gold and silver shine" (see the picture in that article) and produces a "happy" euphoria effect in users. Benzedrine is mentioned by name in the lyrics of "What's the Frequency, Kenneth?" so was obviously known to the band.

This seems pretty clear cut to me, but I can't find any external articles on it to cite, so I can't satisfy WP:NOR at this time. Hopefully someone else has more luck turning up references. - GrahamStw (talk) 20:05, 9 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It seems more like REM decided to use a secondary reference in a song where the PRIMARY focus is NOT Benzedrine. It's more like an aside. The small reference does not automatically mean the song is ONLY about Benzedrine and NOT AT ALL about how Chinese propoganda tried to spin Tienemn Jersey John (talk) 22:03, 10 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The trouble is John, the claims about it referencing Chinese propaganda have no source either and Googling it finds nothing except references on other sites back to the same wiki articles. The lyrics make no mention of China, squares, protests, students, tanks or oppression. The only supposed link is that a piece of Chinese propaganda, which no one has found yet, apparently translates badly to "shining happy people holding hands". You've got to admit - that's pretty obscure! If anything I'd say that small reference was the "aside" and the main thrust of the song is about Benzedrine, which has far clearer references in the lyrics. Perhaps the idea was to provide contrast: the euphoric bennies users happily bouncing, oblivious to what is happening to people the same age as them in China? - GrahamStw (talk) 10:02, 11 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Woman's voice

I am sure that I have heard a woman's voice singing on the song. Does anybody know who the woman is? If there is a woman singing on the song, naming the woman would make an interesting addition to the article. Vorbee (talk) 16:20, 13 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It's in the first paragraph of the article, along with several mentions throughout and a listing under "Additional musicians". - SummerPhD^v2.0 17:55, 13 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Ordering

Several session musicians play on this song, as well as two people who were not session musicians: Kate Pierson and Peter Holzapple. Why are the credits simply in alphabetical order instead of, perhaps, sorting Pierson and Holzapple into a "with" credit and then listing the session musicians in the "additional" credit? Including the featured performers with the session musicians is exactly what led to the preceding question. After all, "vocals" (as Pierson is currently credited) could be a random session background singer, not one of the three featured lead vocalists. AyaK (talk) 23:26, 26 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Really not convinced by the assertions about it being inspired by Chinese propaganda

Yes, there are two references to articles promoting that idea, but neither provides anything to back it up - indeed the quotations therein are at odds with the assertion. This is the woozle effect at work, surely? -- AnotherBunDance (talk) 10:14, 24 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Michael Stipe has definitely BSed in interviews just for his own amusement, but it is a source quotation from the lyricist. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 12:15, 24 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Can you provide the source? I have never seen it. 76.202.64.12 (talk) 16:19, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

We should include discussion of the bizarre theory and how it is disputed, e.g. https://www.vulture.com/2021/03/interview-kate-pierson-shiny-happy-people-rem.html Either removing the theory entirely or leaving uncritically does a disservice to readers. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 17:21, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks – I actually attempted to do that last night. I'm happy to try again, if we have consensus that this is the right way to make reference to the theory (which I strongly support!). 76.202.64.12 (talk) 17:33, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Update – I have now made the edit! 76.202.64.12 (talk) 20:26, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

But what if this statement - that the song refers to Chinese propganda - turns out to be disinformation? For despite the lack of evidence to back up their point of view, why do these people continue to push/repost what seems to be an anti-Chinese agenda? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.149.166.169 (talk) 19:00, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia just says what the sources say. Popcornfud (talk) 19:10, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If it turns out to be disinformation, then post a reliable source saying that it's disinformation. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 22:50, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Then again, if it turns out that all the long-standing objections to the Chinese Govt poster claim cannot be addressed - should not the (dodgy) statement be deleted for good? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.69.169.40 (talk) 19:11, 27 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The fact that numerous sources reported the claim — and that another source reported that they had reported it— is itself notable. Popcornfud (talk) 19:57, 27 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]