Talk:List of defunct Canadian railways

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Algoma Eastern

Algoma Eastern was taken over by the CPR in March of 1930. Little remained afterwards. It was dissolved in 1958. Huron Central is not germane to this history.

R.L.Kennedy 03:27, 20 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Additions and deletions

This list is far from complete, however I have taken up the challenge of the original writer. I have deleted names of railways that never built anything, and there were hundreds of them! I have tried to limit it to railways that existed in the public eye, that is, had locomotives lettered for them. In addition I have included some that a have history written for them on the Internet and provided a link to my web site Old Time Trains under References, which has this material. It also has links to further Canadian Railway history web sites.

I have added brief notes to identify what happened to these defunct railways and have used the word "acquired" (whoever came up with "subsumed"? Not even in my dictionary. Had to search for that one!) simply because acquisition was had through a number of ways including in the case of the CPR, 999 year leases! Such leases are no longer legal, the Supreme Court having ruled anything longer than 99 years is a sale.

The CPR had a number of paper subsidiaries that existed into the 1950's for legal reasons. It also had subsidiaries that it operated under their own names such as Dominion Atlantic, Lake Erie & Northern etc. One of these, Quebec Central, the CPR had only 10% ownership yet, through a lease, operated it as if it owned it all!

Ontario & Quebec is an infamous "paper" subsidiary that came into the news in a big way in the 1980's when the CPR sold off its assets and kept the money for itself! Prime downtown Toronto real estate worth a fortune. It included Credit Valley and one-time narrow gauge Toronto Grey & Bruce. It was leased for 999 years yet, the CPR never held 100% ownership and the minority shareholders objected in a big way to getting nothing for themselves. It was in the courts for years and went all the way to the Supreme Court of Canada, They lost. The CPR won!

R.L.Kennedy

I have a couple of points:

This list has really developed over the last couple of months. I agree that the list be limited to 'real' railroads rather than just paper railroads. But I would suggest expanding your definition to railways that were built rather than just having lettered locomotives.
I used the word 'subsumed' to describe railways that were chartered and built by a major railway but who's identity disappeared (ie was 'subsumed') into the major railway (see for example Columbia and Kootenay Railway and Canadian Northern Pacific Railway). These railways were never actually acquired since they always belonged to and were controlled by the major railway. In contrast, other railways had an independent existence before being taken over (purchased or longterm lease) (see for example Kettle Valley Railway).
The listing of US railroads in the article is a mess. I think they should either get a separate heading (ie NOT under 'U') and the descriptions should be cut to a single line as with other railroads. More details can be put into the specific railway article. Or if the US railway was simply leasing a Canadian railway that could just be noted in the listing for the Canadian railway.

Al guy 17:41, Feb 20, 2005 (UTC)

I think the list should be defined as railroads that built trackage (ie. the "subsumed"). I think the commenting could be made more effective by placing it into the articles themselves - even if they are only labeled with the {"rail-stub"} (remove the quote), right now we have a pile of red links, which is okay where we don't have information for certain railroads, but there is plenty to at least get a start on some of them. Even if it just says the name, and "this railway/railroad became a subsidiary of xxx, or was merged with yyy to become zzz". I'll see if I can get a start on these in the next few days. I agree the U.S. area is a mess - the individual companies/subsidiaries of the U.S. systems should be placed into the general alphabetical listing, as opposed to being grouped under "U". Plasma east 18:58, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)

E&N

E: What is still operating is the E&N Railway Company (1998) Ltd. not the Esquimalt & Nanaimo. R.L.Kennedy 03:42, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I just thought that since the railway had been renamed doesn't necessarily make it 'defunct'. Canadian Pacific Limited is not listed as a defunct railway because it spun off its assets as Canadian Pacific Railway Limited. Perhaps the entry could be put back on the list as Esquimalt and Nanaimo Railway - operating as E and N Railway. Al guy 04:20, Mar 27, 2005 (UTC)

Defunct, in the sense of this list refers to the Corporate company not the actual tracks. In many cases the tracks continued under new names. In many cases both the Corporate and the tracks were abandoned. Esquimalt & Nanaimo was controlled by the CPR for decades. The finally got out of it by selling a small portion and then leasing the rest to E & N Railway Company (1998) Limited. The CPR is currently negotiating a deal to sell off the line to a new shortline which will also take over the portion sold to Rail America. So, the Esquimalt & Nanaimo may legally exist at the moment even though it does not operate. Perhaps then, it is correct to leave it off the list until actually disposed of by CPR.

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