Talk:Martin Wiener

from VfD:

• Appears to be vanity page. Fails Google test: searches for "Martin Wiener", "Martin Joel Wiener", and titles of works referenced in body of article all yielded less than 10 hits (some with zero hits). Only linked from one page (Public school (UK)), which was edited by the same IP (Contributions) to include reference to this page (diff). Recommend delete. Animated Cascade ^talk 10:13, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)
• Keep. Martin J. Wiener is a significant historian with several works published by major publishers. / up+land 10:31, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)
• Keep, notable. iMeowbot~Mw 12:32, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)
• Keep. The book mentioned in the second sentence of the article is stocked by Amazon (ISBN 0521270340). That should be sufficient to demonstrate that he's a notable author. --MarkSweep 12:33, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • I'd have to strongly disagree with that test. Amazon stocks books that are put out by PublishAmerica and Xlibris and other houses where you can get just about anything published if you put up the cash. Note that I have no comment on this professor or his books, just that "Amazon stocks his books" is not a very strong indicator of notability. -- Antaeus Feldspar 17:22, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)
    • Comment: Good point. I'm not proposing the wholesale import of the list of authors whose books you can purchase through Amazon. The Amazon test is nothing more than a rule of thumb like the Google test and works primarily in the other direction: if the article claims someone is a contemporary author and their books are not stocked by Amazon (or other appropriate booksellers), it's a bit suspicious. --MarkSweep 00:41, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)
      • Actually, the only reasonable thing with books is to check one or more of the hundreds of online catalogues of research libraries available over the web. That should be stated somewhere as part of the homework to do before a nomination on VfD. I added a bibliography, mentioning his books, but he has also written a number of articles in journals. / up+land 10:31, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)
• Keep, just need wikifying. Rje 12:59, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)
• Needs revision. It says that he "will" release a revision in Sept. 2004. Well, this is one of the problems with articles that contain speculation. At any rate, I think the article is hyperbolic, but it should be kept in this form. Geogre 13:05, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)
• Keep and revise. Genuine academic and author of a book that has clearly at one point been notable in notable circles and was published by an academic textbook house (Cambridge University Press). A Google search suggests this is Martin J Wiener, Professor at Rice university and currently the Mary Gibbs Jones chair in History. Personally, I think full Professors are worth including in Wikipedia (certainly more so than the tide of fancruft), so even without the book I'd include him. Average Earthman 13:43, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)
• Keep. Google gives a tonne of results. Dan100 15:22, Dec 24, 2004 (UTC)
• Keep it. I'm glad nothing is slipping under the radar during holiday. —RaD Man (talk) 18:59, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)
• Comment: Adding a Category:American historians on Wiener, I noticed that the Historians categories are a mess. Distinguishing between Category:American historians (for nationality) and Category:United States historians (for area of study) hardly seems clear. Category:Historians of the United States would be better, with Wiener perhaps in a category like Category:Historians of England? / up+land 10:31, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)
• Keep. 900 Google-hits on the booktitle. - Andre Engels 15:28, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)
• Comment/Keep: Sorry for bothering you all, folks. Originally, my Google search did show no hits, but after reading your comments here, I tried again, and I see that the subject is indeed very well known. I withdraw my request to delete. Animated Cascade ^talk 06:11, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)
• Keep. Notable, as indicated by the original VfD nominator. GRider\^talk 18:27, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)

end moved discussion

punctuation!

I cannot scan this monster sentence! Can anyone help rewrite it?

Quite apart from its importance in the development of the Thatcher government, Wiener's influence has been at least partially credited[citation needed] with (or blamed for) the general increased dominance of commercial and market values in Britain from the 1980s onwards, the way certain ancient Establishment institutions have become deeply concerned with "rebranding" and "modernising" themselves (for example the removal of ancient rituals and the increased emphasis on "young enterprise" in many public schools, or the British Royal Family's "Party at the Palace" in 2002) and the upsurge in highly successful British pop and rock singers and musicians who were educated privately, such as James Blunt, Chris Martin, Will Young, Keane, Busted and McFly (which many credit to a rapidly declining suspicion of such unashamedly commercial and American-led cultural forms as pop music among that social class).

-Wikianon (talk) 19:25, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Not a biography

The article isn't much of a biography but more of a list of who's for or against his ideas, which are too briefly summarized... I actually think much of the topic should be split to an article on the book, but I'm not sure how to fix the rest of it. Can we ask Professor Wiener to correct it? Or maybe just get permission to work from the official biography at the Rice website? Shanen (talk) 09:56, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Needs to be more general

Almost the entirety of the article is the section "English Culture and the Decline of the Industrial Spirit: The Wiener Debate". We need more sections to diversify this. RJFJR (talk) 20:07, 28 October 2016 (UTC)